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[personal profile] lesbiassparrow
Just watched this for the first time in a while and while I do love it it I am 

a) struck by how dumb the Doctor is in this one.  'Do I have the right....?' Sure you do, and horrific wars bringing some people together in the occasional treaty is not enough of a reason to leave homicidal machines to run riot in the universe.  'Out of their evil must come something good' makes me gnash my teeth like a mad woman. 

b) also struck by how happy the Doctor, Sarah Jane and Harry are seconds after seeing Davros wipe out various scientists who wanted to stop him. They're all 'oh that was sad'  and seconds later there was mad glee. Of course, it only lasted seconds because there were Daleks on their trail, but still they bounced back fast after seeing people slaughtered in front of them.

c) a bit astounded by how happy the Doctor is to leave other people to deal with messes. Oh yes, let the various mutants and leftovers from the military deal with killing the Daleks.  Because they've got the capacity to do a bang up job with that.

I think a lot of this is even worse with the retroactive knowledge that the Doctor had to blow up Gallifrey and all the badly dressed time lords and ladies because he was so very stupid.  I bet he was sorry for that one.  Now I think of it, I suspect that that makes this one a wee bit better because he paid for his sins, he did.  Or rather, everyone else did. 

Date: 2006-06-12 07:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cryptile.livejournal.com
a) Of course, come Remembrance of the Daleks he's offing the little green blobs left and right and even wipes out Skaro cold-bloodedly. -- Well, mostly cold-bloodedly if you don't count the "tea" bits.

b) In retrospect, a lot of the Doctor-Rose behavior this season might be a little too canonical. Sigh.

c) "Can't stay I'll mess up timeline do it yourselves unlimited faith in human ability CSI is on goodnight folks! INTO THE TARDIS!"

Date: 2006-06-12 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
a) the Doctor likes to change his mind. A lot.

b) The Doctor-Rose behaviour is totally canonical, IMO. Mind you, if the Doctor and his companions didn't have the world's shorted memory they would probably be catatonic by about adventure 3 of any episode, so it's probably just as well.

c) I think 'hey, here's a mess, why don't you prove how wonderful you are and sort it out using a penknife, a goat and some string against monsters with ray guns o'death' is Gallifreyan for 'I have no attention span and you are no longer shiny enough to interest me. Off now to shag companions.' Though CSI being on is also an excellent option.

Date: 2006-06-12 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cryptile.livejournal.com
McGyver totally defused a nuclear reactor with nothing but a goat, a penknife and some string. Don't knock it.

Also . . . maybe it's been a bit since I saw Genesis, but I never really saw the Doctor as wondering whether or not it was good that the Daleks got stopped (yes, duh) but more as him being extremely uncomfortable with the implications of subscribing to their worldview, even if ultimately to defeat them. I think he was well-aware of why it would be a Good Thing if there were no Daleks. Rest of the episode pretty much shoots that theory to hell, still . . .

Date: 2006-06-12 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
I think he was well-aware of why it would be a Good Thing if there were no Daleks.

Somehow this makes it worse that his conclusions is 'oh well it will be better in the long run if the universe has to deal with them killing whole peoples. Because then they'll get together and sing kumbaya.' If they'd had him do it explicitly simply because genocide is a wrong thing becuase it makes you like your enemy it would be better than the expressed 'well, Daleks might make the universe a better place in the long run. So that's okay then' comment they end it on.

Date: 2006-06-12 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cryptile.livejournal.com
Point.

Whatever else RTD does mawkishly, I think he would've written better dialogue for that scene.

Date: 2006-06-12 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
I think there's a tendency to forget some of the more terrible writing in Who in the past. Plus the plots that made no sense and the trampling over canon when it was needed (how many times did the back story of the Daleks change anyway?).

Date: 2006-06-12 11:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chelseagirl47.livejournal.com
I saw this not too long ago and it was the first Fourth Doctor one I'd rewatched in many years. One thing I discovered was that I like my Old School DW episodic -- the version we (my husband and I, not a sudden shift to the royal "we" ;-) ) found was edited into one and it seemed fairly endless; the next one we randomly chose was Hand of Fear which we watched in its original bite sized pieces and enjoyed it far more.

I completely agree, most particularly about the first point. It felt like a tacked-on ending; oops, we can't eliminate the Daleks, now can we,
so let's have the Doctor say this random consoling thing because after all although that was great backstory didn't it make the whole two-and-a-half hours I just sat through pretty pointless?

Date: 2006-06-12 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
I haven't ever seen them all rolled into one, which I think would be rather much.

The ending is just odd; it's oddly very early World War I in its message - suffering and blood does something good for a people and forge them into something noble. Until you realise that it will go on and there's nothing noble about living in trenches and dying for idiotic reasons. In fact, the ending runs counter to the entire message of the start - that wars don't breed nobility, they just collapse societies until they are dysfunctional.

Date: 2006-06-13 01:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chelseagirl47.livejournal.com
Sort of Rupert Brooke vs. Siegfried Sassoon/Wilfred Owen.

Date: 2006-06-13 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
It's the bastard child of the 'war is a noble adventure' and 'war is a waste of human potential' poets. No wonder it's confused...

Date: 2006-06-12 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com
It's wrong to kill Daleks. *nods sagely*

Date: 2006-06-12 05:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
Yes. And presumably Hitler as well. Tom Baker told me so, so it must be true. Because then the BBC couldn't use them in any more adventures he is a moral Doctor of morality.

Date: 2006-06-12 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com
"Do I have the right?"
"OF COURSE YOU FUCKING HAVE. Here, let me do it, you useless layabout."

And that's why I would be a rubbish companion. :(

Date: 2006-06-12 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
Rationality is not a useful quality for a companion. Because if you had it you'd never go around poking the things you're not supposed to with a large stick and then need to be saved. And you'd always be asking the Doctor why he doesn't just explain things properly instead of going 'oh, ah, well there's no need for you to understand.'

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