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[personal profile] lesbiassparrow
Honestly, I don't think I could love this more. At the end of episode 11 I even rather enjoy emo prince.

I shall cut this for [livejournal.com profile] calixa even though she has a wrong view of OTPs in the show.



I go backwards and forwards on emo prince. Yes, I hated him when he walked away from all those desperate women and HGD was going to save them, but the scene at the end of 11 when he is embracing Yi Nok because he loves her and he doesn't want her to see that HGD is alive? Eep!

But most of all I love Hong Gil Dong. So smashing and I love all of his crew and his pretense at being the ginseng merchant. MOST OF ALL I LOVED HIS MANY FACES. HGD as a cow! As a tree! Best scene ever! And that's what I love about this show is the way it has these odd little scenes that crack you up interspersed with horrible real life woe. Honestly that portrayal of money lenders was more honest than any other I've seen in kdrama.

Plus I love Yi Nok and her desperate attempt to save the girls no matter what and that in the end their parents did care about them enough to save them. HGD makes people want to be better people, I think, and that makes him a real leader.

LOVE LOVE LOVE.

Date: 2008-04-11 06:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-dian.livejournal.com
How did you like this part:

Su Geun (as Gil Dong): “Do not come any closer, young lass. Because of my circumstances, I cannot reveal my true identity.”
Enok: “Please tell me your name.”
Su Geun/Gil Dong: “In a fate as fleeting as the passing wind, what is the use of knowing each other’s names? Let us merely think of this encounter as briefly mingling our scents underneath the moonlight sky.”
[Gil Dong shoots Su Geun a frown. Enok sniffs the air.]
Enok: “But I don’t smell anything.”
Su Geun/Gil Dong: “This is as close as we come. Do not come any nearer and alight my chest with flames.”
Enok: “But I don’t have any fire.”
Su Geun: “Your gaze is like kindling that enflames a man’s heart. The fire has gone out, so like wisps of smoke, adieu.”
Enok: “Are you telling me to get lost, like smoke? O…kay. I’ll leave.”
Su Geun: “Farewell, Doe Eyes.”


I laughed SO HARD at that. I take so much pleasure on Yi Nok's innocence and lack of wit, LOL.

I thought "heh, at last the Prince is showing some emotions" when he hugged Yi Nok. But Yi Nok. Oh Yi Nok you silly girl... I bet she still doens't get it that Chang Hwi is falling for her :D The love triange (or rectangle?) in HGD is pretty amusing. In Hyung liking Eun Hye, Eun Hye liking Gil Dong, Chang Hwi liking Yi Nok, Yi Nok liking Gil Dong ^^ I am such a spoiler ho so I know how things turn out, but I still like observing the progress of the OTPs anyway.

Date: 2008-04-12 01:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
I love that scene!

I think Yi Nok has spent so much of her life just trying to make a living and survive that this might be the first time she's got to have fun and have a real life. So all these men falling for her is very unexpected and she has no idea that it is possible. Plus there's enough social difference that I think it's something that she doesn't even talk about.

Date: 2008-04-11 09:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alexandral.livejournal.com
And that's what I love about this show is the way it has these odd little scenes that crack you up interspersed with horrible real life woe. Honestly that portrayal of money lenders was more honest than any other I've seen in kdrama.

If you like this I would rec "Money's Warfare", it is so honest I am surprised it is a kdrama.

Why can't I love DG as much as everyone else does? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? ** weeps ** I think it is all in the fact that I don't particular like accidental heros (and my skepticism concerning KJH acting skills). I remember that you said that this means everyone can be a hero. But this means they don't need to make an effort to be a hero??

EUREKA: I think I just realised what is the case. GD's remarks of how silly YN is and calling her an idiot ALL THE TIME enrage me. If anyone ever calls me an idiot or "silly girl" they will not survive this day. :D I will fight for all the generations of the women who were called silly. Rememeber how you don't like Huyn Bin's character in KSS because he is a jerk? .. ** is determined to fight for the rights of women ***

I don't think the prince is a "nice person", I think i can relate with many things in his position personally and this is why I like him. I know this is not the same for everyone but for myself I don't need a fictional character to be a goody to fall in love with. I only seen few bits of new "Robin Hood", for example, and I am totally Guy of Gisborne fan.

Date: 2008-04-11 09:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-dian.livejournal.com
Why can't I love DG as much as everyone else does? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
Aawww *huggles* I am with the majority here in liking Gil Dong and Kang Ji Hwan. But hey, everyone likes Lee Jun Ki and eventhough I think he is androgynously awesome, I don't think he's appealing enough for me to fangirl. I think he's a great actor but just not my taste. And it doesn't help either that I haven't really fallen for any of his dramas/movies (except perhaps The King & Clown).

GD's remarks of how silly YN is and calling her an idiot ALL THE TIME enrage me.
I am okay with GD calling "silly/stupid girl" so often because he doesn't mean it in a ridiculous or loathing way. In the first few eps it was apparent that Gil Dong's a carefree spirit and also lacks sensitivity, but doesn't really mean real harm. The part where he kicked Yi Nok in the butt (when she was trying to pick up his sunglasses) unsettled me a bit because I that particular kind of gesture was rough/rude to me. But then as the eps progressed, I could see that Gil Dong's "stupid girl" name calling and general disposition with Yi Nok improved, and it escalated from general name calling to something that was a trait between them. At times it was even a rather interesting way of Gil Dong being affectionate with her. Furthermore, Yi Nok doesn't mind being called "silly girl" by Gil Dong. She herself acknowledges that she's not the brightest cookie. I guess the bottom line for me, the name calling wasn't meant to be hateful or offensive and I didn't perceive it any other way when watching the drama :D IMHO of course.

To cheer you up with regards to Hong Gil Dong, here's a song that I really, really like from the last ep. It's a Norwegian song titled Lær Meg Å Kjenne. The music hauntingly beautiful and the lyrics very deep and touching to me:

Teach me to know your ways, and to walk them trustingly step by step.
I know that what I own, are borrowed goods, and everything is yours.
But if your strong hand guides me,
I will never see the wrong goal.
And for every hope that dies down here,
I will receive a greater hope in heaven.

Date: 2008-04-11 10:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alexandral.livejournal.com
I am okay with GD calling "silly/stupid girl" so often because he doesn't mean it in a ridiculous or loathing way.

Hmm, this makes it worse for me. It is like that habitual sexism I find so enraging - "Oh, this is silly woman driver. HA-HA", "Oh, silly blond. ha-ha". People doan't even mean it as insult but it is insulting if you think about it.

Date: 2008-04-11 10:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-dian.livejournal.com
I am sorry if I have offended you! *hugs* I can understand your viewpoint, though. Perhaps because the silly name calling is in a dorama, I find it acceptable. If it was in real life perhaps I wouldn't feel the same way.

Date: 2008-04-11 10:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alexandral.livejournal.com
Oh, no! You didn't offend me at all! ** hugs ** Why would you?
It took me a while to figure out WHY I Don't like the main hero in HGD the way I should but I think I got it now, it was just burning for me on the background. :D

I agree about it being a dorama (there must be cultural differences with the way these things are viewed in Korea) but once I find something worrying like this it doesn't usually go away.

Date: 2008-04-11 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-dian.livejournal.com
Oh, no! You didn't offend me at all!
Oooh I am so glad! :) You reserve every right as an audience to not like Gil Dong, so that is totally fine :D

Date: 2008-04-11 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
How did you feel about Full House? Because Rain name-calls it all the time.

Basically, for me it's the intent that is important and here it's not insulting but endearing so doesn't bug me (she starts calling him 'Dummy' too, more than once, so it's a weird mutual endearment).

There is nothing weird about not liking HGD. I mean, everybody loves Kim Sam Soon and I loathe it and find the heroine totally repulsive.

Date: 2008-04-11 02:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alexandral.livejournal.com
Hee! I know! (But I still appreciate your comment :D)

I think in "Full House" the herouine clearly wasn't silly ( I mean! The writer!)and she was very verbose in name calling herself. Then it was my second ever drama. I think i posted about this before - it really seems that there must be some intent in kdrama type of "silly but adorable" herouine. I don't particular like the type, especially after seeing it many times.. I don't even know how I would have reacted to ISWAK now when I am so full of "silly and adorable" to the brim. As if you have to be silly to be adorable.

Date: 2008-04-11 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I think, in some ways, we all bring our personal histories into drama watching. Name-calling (unless it's clearly intended to hurt) in fiction never bothers me because it's a thing in my life. My husband teases me by calling me 'midget' (he is almost a foot taller than me) or 'granny' (I am a year-odd older) but it cracks me up, and I tease him back just as fiercely, and it amuses us both immensely. I know he'd stop immediately if it bugged me and vice versa.

And I do it with a lot of my friends as well. My best friend in college (and still a close friend) and I used to insult each other like mad, so much so that a girl who knew her, who we were hanging out with, thought we had a huge fight :P I mean, she refers to me as 'IS' which is short for 'Insignificant Worm' and my nick for her is even less printable :P

So yeah..GD would have to try a lot harder than Dummy to ruffle me.

Date: 2008-04-11 02:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alexandral.livejournal.com
You see, it is different with peolpe you know for many years (and my husband has too many names for me and few are totally TMI. Hmm, lets think of a sensible one I can post.. I can't .. May be "big brain" ;D) and with someone who you only met yesterday.

GD was calling YN "Stupid girl" (which is different to dummy IMHO) before they even became friends. And yes where with some friends (and even worse, with work colleagues who are of crazy type) I get called all sorts of things. If someone I don't know well called me stupid it would have been the end of their life . ;D

Date: 2008-04-11 03:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
someone I don't know well called me stupid it would have been the end of their life

LOL. Now I am imagining you with a meat cleaver.

It clearly wasn't an endearment in the beginning and he wasn't super-sweet to her in the beginning either, but that is because he had to not only grow as a human being, but the drama showed a progression of their feelings, where what was once a snide comment became an endearment. Once again, sort of like Full House.

I like Yi Nok, but she is a little too on the ditzy side for me to love. GD is by far my favorite character in the drama (and probably one of my all time drama faves) so...

It's odd because I adore clumsy/stupid heroines. Maybe it's their energy level and ridiculous optimism which is similar to mine. I am nowhere near that sweet-natured though :P

ETA: Stupid Girl v. Dummy. I've seen it translated both ways (SG by WITHS2 and Dummy by Dramabeans) so I am assuming this is just an approximation of a somewhat different Korean word...I guess you see it as a sort of a difference between Russian word 'Dura' (which I can't see as an endearment) and 'Glupenkaya' (which definitely can be)? But since I don't speak Korean, no idea which one the original is closer to.

Date: 2008-04-12 09:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-dian.livejournal.com
Heee... how interesting. The more I think about it, it's true that I don't find the name calling offensive because I'm watching something fictional. In RL I actually DO mind if I am often called silly names by people that I care about, even if it wasn't meant to be hurtful. Joking around and even putting me down when joking is alright, too, but just not name calling. None of my friends call me silly names, and neither does my family :D

In Full House I actually think Ji Eun (?) minded being called "ricecooker" or "chicken" or whatever it was LOL. That's why I think when they made an amendment (haha) to their marriage agreement, she put in a clause that no name calling was allowed :)

Date: 2008-04-12 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
In Full House I always get stuck on that dreadful dinner towards the end with the 4 main characters where Rain's character just is dreadful. Sure he's jealous and has an emotional age of 14 (if I am generous) but it just goes far over the top. I think there's a difference about name calling in private or in family groups versus using those names in public situations where they're clearly meant to hurt and be insulting.

Date: 2008-04-13 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-dian.livejournal.com
Oh yes. I agree. Rain's character in Full House so needed to grow up. I felt sorry for Ji Eun there. Up to a certain point I was rooting for her to be with the Other Mature Guy. With Full House, I think I fell in love with Ji Eun more than anything else :) She was so my dorama girl crush, LOL.

Date: 2008-04-12 01:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
Rememeber how you don't like Huyn Bin's character in KSS because he is a jerk?

This is a really good point. It was also something that infuriated me about Full House - in fact, if Rain hadn't been as likable as he was I would have loathed his character but he did a really good job of selling someone who would otherwise have been really unpleasant.

I guess I don't think the 'silly girl' stuff is as prevalent or as excused as it was in other shows? And I think Huyn Bin's character was a far bigger jerk with much less reason. (Sorry! He is still cute!) In this one I feel that we are show that Hong Gil Dong has a lot to learn and needs to change - clearly at the start everyone hates him in his town, so he's not painted as a charming person. And! Unlike Rain's character in Full House he doesn't call Yi Nok a dirty idiot in front of other people.

Maybe I am coming up with excuses really and just trying to wriggle out of my shameful betrayal of feminism. Um. I should go and ponder this.

(And in the new 'Robin Hood,' Guy of Gisbourne is the lovely Richard Armitage. How could you not like him?)

Date: 2008-04-12 02:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Re: KSS.

I didn't care for Hyun Bin's character in it (there were a few times I wanted to strangle him, which if you know my tolerance of jerk heroes, is saying a lot) but since I loathed the heroine, it ultimately didn't bug me. Btw, you might want to watch Snow Queen. It's the drama that made me love Hyun Bin and it's very very lovely.

I think in FH it didn't bother me because he clearly needed to grow up and got a lot of angst for being rude, and ultimately, whatever he'd say, his actions were always very nice (if a stange person barged into my house claiming it was hers and what not, I'd call the cops and not nurse her fever).

Date: 2008-04-12 08:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alexandral.livejournal.com
Hee!

This is a really good point. It was also something that infuriated me about Full House - in fact, if Rain hadn't been as likable as he was I would have loathed his character but he did a really good job of selling someone who would otherwise have been really unpleasant.

It did bother me slightly in "Full House" but because herouine was anything but silly (The writer!) it just looked like a childish behaviour on Rain's behalf rather than the case that he thought her silly. Where YN is portrayed as a stumbling idiot (which bothered me too! what is it with these "silly and adorable" herouines!) and GD really thinks her to be silly.

You see, this different for me – calling someone un-silly silly shows that the person who doing it is silly but calling someone silly silly shows that the person who doing it cruel.

WINTER QUEEN! Huyn Bin is a darling there + terminal illness + the main hero was the best friend with the herouine's deceased brother. It has "written for lesbiassparrow" all over it

Date: 2008-04-12 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
I haven't finished HGD yet (at episode 14) but I'm not convinced that Yi Nok is that stupid. She's naive and far too trusting and not amazingly clever, but not stupid. I wish she was as clever as the outlaw lady but, sadly, she's not. But I wonder if that's the only way the writers could manage to get across that she's also, despite her lifestyle, really innocent. She's lived this really rough and tumble life and is currently living behind the brothel but none of it has affected her desire to think the best of people and want to be kind. Unlike with HGD and Emo Prince her first instinct is to do good, which is why I think they both love her: she's got something that they lack themselves.

I shall watch Winter Queen one day - but it will have to wait until after 'Save the Last Dance' and 'Legend.' So many doramas and so little time!

Date: 2008-04-13 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-dian.livejournal.com
You described Yi Nok beautifully :) I am in love with her innocence and pureness. I shall have to write a character analysis on the main roles once I finish HGD ;)

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