BSG 2.8 & 9 and Cylons

[lesbiassparrow]

I pretty much saw these two back to back due to real life intruding so I'm rolling them both together. Mainly it's a lot of talk about Cylons



First off, the general: Cylons. Apart from the find the Cylon on Galactica game that I play every episode (and so far I have pegged everyone except for Tyrol because I think that would be overkill), I have conflicting feelings about their presentation. Sharon for instance: it's hard not to feel sympathy for her, because it's hard not to feel sympathy for anything caged and at the mercy of those who mostly hate them. On the other hand, we know that no matter what she might want she is ultimately at the mercy of her programming. Or at least we think we know that, based on what happened to the other Sharon. We also know she thinks human gods are false which given that the Cylons are crazy religious freaks means that she could go on a crusade at any moment. And we all know who the infidels are.

Is Galactica right to keep her caged? Yes; they don't have many choices really. Should they trust her? No, unless they have to. I wonder if her destroying the Cylon fleet = the other Sharon blowing up the base star. Based on that they should be expecting her to do something very, very bad shortly. Is the fleets' reaction to Helo normal and understandable? Yes. I didn't really buy Racetrack's handshake at the end: if a race of killer robots wiped out my entire civilisation I don't think I'd be forgiving someone who is sleeping with the enemy so easily. And I don't think the fleet is wrong to be so wary. And I am wee bit surprised that Kara is not more isolated along with Helo for being seen as sympathetic to his point of view.

It's not that I'm comfortable with the abuse thrown and the snarling on the part of the humans but that I'm not sure it's all that misplaced. Given the information we've seen, this isn't like hating someone from a country that has committed terrible wrongs: the Cylons have all got the same basic programming and so far as we know that programming is designed to the greater end of getting rid of humans. Expecting them to want anything else in the long run seems like expecting a tiger to play with your children without eventually eating one of them. But I like the way the show keeps balancing on the line with the morals and politics of human-Cylon interaction.

Going by what's online I guess I might be the only person to be uncomfortable with the way the politics of this show is going. I am specifically referring to the message of 'The Final Cut' complete with hard-hitting investigative reporter who is (naturally) a Cylon. Given that this came out just after US news media just promised to get tougher on the government for its failures, the timing and message was interesting. But for the life of me I can't work out what the message really was - are reporters really a fifth column, unnecessary under war-time conditions, unless they churn out patriotic puff pieces? Or is it that by churning out a puff piece D'anna actually showed her Cylonness and that is not what the fleet needed? Yes, I know the military suffers on behalf of the civilians, but aren't some of them drawn from the civilians on the fleet? The problem is that we've seen so little of the civilians on this show it's hard to know what they're going through and what they may be sacrificing to keep Galactica firing all its guns.

And Dee/Lee. Okay, I love Billy/Dee as being one of the sweetest things on a dark show, but I thought that Lee and Dee had sizzling chemistry in their wrestling scene. They are both so very pretty and so very principled that part of me would love to see them together, while the other part would have her heart broken for Billy.

As for Tyrol's 'come on kids, let's build a ship!' bit, I really liked it. It could have been cheesy but in the end it was more about his desperation than anything else so I bought it. But he's so competent and actually good at inspiring people to do things, I think Adama should fire the increasingly useless Tigh and give him the job of second in command. As far as I can see all Tigh does is go about shouting at the moment, so Tyrol wouldn't have that much extra to do.

I don't have a lot to say about Starbuck this or last episode because I'm not really sure what the show is doing with her. Marking a bit of time until her next big episode, I guess. I was a bit surprised that the fleet let their best pilot test their new ship, but there you go.

Comments

[ehab-it.livejournal.com]

I don't have a lot to say about Starbuck this or last episode because I'm not really sure what the show is doing with her.

I think the terrific ensemble cast they have actually causes problems. In addition to Starbuck, Baltar, Galactica!Six, and Helo are all really suffering from the lack of attention and storyline.

There are so many characters I'm interested in that I feel cheated in a way when a story doesn't involve them all, or worse when they're involved but peripherally and with out much thought.

I love the chief and I heartily concur he'd be a great 2nd in command. He's a natural leader, much like Roslin and Adama. The viper storyline had the potential to be hokey, but as you said, he really sold his misery. Truthfully, much as I hate to admit it, Douglas was acting circles around Penikott in their scene, which I also loved.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking of running a campaign for Tyrol as the new second in command. He's so competent in a totally quiet way - and I really like the actor. I hope they give him more to do soon beyond just suffering.

[meret.livejournal.com]

if a race of killer robots wiped out my entire civilisation I don't think I'd be forgiving someone who is sleeping with the enemy so easily.

Even if they don't think Helo is a traitor, I'd think they would think he was too stupid to be trusted.

I guess I might be the only person to be uncomfortable with the way the politics of this show is going. I am specifically referring to the message of 'The Final Cut'

While there were things in Final Cut I did like, over all I didn't like the ep because of the message I got from it - that it's okay for the military to make mistakes and kill a few civillians once in awhile, because they're protecting us. I see that attitude far too much in the US military these days for me to be comfortable with it in a tv show. There were a few other people who had a similar reaction to it. Not many, but a few.

They are both so very pretty and so very principled that part of me would love to see them together, while the other part would have her heart broken for Billy.

If she wasn't already with Billy, I'd probably like them together, but I like she and Billy together too much to be happy about them messing with that. Besides, Lee belongs with Laura. ;)

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

While there were things in Final Cut I did like, over all I didn't like the ep because of the message I got from it - that it's okay for the military to make mistakes and kill a few civillians once in awhile, because they're protecting us. I see that attitude far too much in the US military these days for me to be comfortable with it in a tv show.

This was my reaction also and I wasn't at all comfortable - the stirring patriotic music at the end of her broadcast also totally freaked me out. It wasn't exactly the best way to deal with the fallout of the coup and I hope that's not where they leave it.

Lee and Laura are still my OTP but I do have a little traitorious desire to see Lee and Dualla. But poor Billy! He and Dualla are so sweet (and if either of them ever turns out to be a Cylon I will weep).

[jenavira.livejournal.com]

I wonder if her destroying the Cylon fleet = the other Sharon blowing up the base star. Based on that they should be expecting her to do something very, very bad shortly.

Yeep. I hadn't thought of that, but I kind of think you're right...

It's not that I'm comfortable with the abuse thrown and the snarling on the part of the humans but that I'm not sure it's all that misplaced.

Word. I was thrilled that they went ahead and destroyed the Cylon fighters even after they'd been disabled...not that it's a particularly nice thing to do, but bloody hell, who wouldn't?

Going by what's online I guess I might be the only person to be uncomfortable with the way the politics of this show is going. I am specifically referring to the message of 'The Final Cut' complete with hard-hitting investigative reporter who is (naturally) a Cylon.

I wondered about that too. On the one hand, yay, they were having her stand up to them and insist on doing something that wasn't simply propaganda. On the other hand, well, we didn't exactly see what she ended up with...so it is hard to tell what they were trying to do with that.

The problem is that we've seen so little of the civilians on this show it's hard to know what they're going through and what they may be sacrificing to keep Galactica firing all its guns.

I think we need an episode with civillians, a little demonstration of how much their lives suck, too. Because no, you're not getting shot at by Cylons every day, but still...

I adored Tyrol's shipbuilding exercise. (Then again, I do kind of have a thing for Tyrol.) And they named it Laura! I was getting all sniffly, I was.

You've left out the best part of the episode -- Tyrol beating the shit out of Helo. Damn, that made me happy. Helo's so...meh.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I think we need an episode with civillians, a little demonstration of how much their lives suck, too. Because no, you're not getting shot at by Cylons every day, but still...

I'd really like that - especially if they weren't conspiring and being all shifty. At the least the military have a command structure that stayed the same; the fleet must be much more chaotic and at a loss.

Tyrol beating up Helo was excellent. (And I also have a thing for him; he's so sane and decent and he has such a rotten time of it. He doesn't even have a Sharon of his own any more.) I'm constantly astonished that he and Starbuck are still surprised about people's reaction to Sharon. She may be the fount of all virtues but that isn't going to change the fact that the Cylons wiped out most of humanity and are still trying to kill what's left off.

[k-julia.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on Sharon, and this is something I really like about her development. I only hope that they already have a good idea of how this is going to go, and it's not going to be 'Sharon -- playing her own game or honest defector?' depending on plot convenience.

The crew being harsh to Helo was something I found uncomfortable more out of the principle of the thing, because normally that kind of attitude is linked to racism and other evils, but as you're saying, this is a different situation because nobobody understands how Sharon works. Maybe she doesn't even know herself. Very interesting.

As for the documentary last week, I don't think you're the only one uncomfortable with how that went, and I for one was disappointed that they didn't use this ep to make a statement on the role of journalism in times of crisis. And it could have been. I liked the idea of a balanced account, and I am in favour of cutting people some slack according to the disastrous circumstances under which they have to work. But the ending of the documentary made my skin crawl. There are two different levels here; I can see why Adama would like it, and I can also see why Roslin would think that at the moment that's what they need, but from a meta level, the only way I could stomach that last bit was by assuming that because of the Cylon reveal, we weren't to take this at face value.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

The reaction to Helo is uncomfortable to watch, though he seems remarkably unfazed either by the crew's attitude or by the fact that Sharon might turn out to be a killer again.

As for 'The Final Cut' - the ending made me very uncomfortable too. I don't think they need to beat the crew up for making mistakes, but given that Adama doesn't seem willing to think about Tigh's actions or discipline him maybe it's a good idea to have someone cast some light on the issues. I can't help but think the idea that the Galactica is above criticism because of what it does for the fleet will come back and haunt them all at some point.

[daisylou22.livejournal.com]

I personally have no issues with Sharon still being caged. Adama has ZERO reasons to trust her. For all he knows, she could turn on him at any second, as did the Sharon that shot him. He still doesn't have any reason to believe she won't. I don't think, after the near total anihilation of the human race by cylons and his own near-death experience, that Adama will ever trust a cylon. He eventually may become sympathetic to Sharon on an individual level, but I don't ever see him outwardly showing it.

Of course, I can envision RDM pulling in some type of "human rights" angle in the future. Helo can't be the only cylon sympathizer in the fleet. Already, Gaeta refers to her as Sharon. Eventually humans will be torn by their own humanity over this "almost" human being. And when Sharon has her baby, the cylon agenda will have a cute cherub face. Adama will not be able to be mean to the baby and get away with it, simply because the human condition will make everyone sympathetic to the cylon baby. Should be interesting.

And there are 8 cylons still in the fleet. We've seen six models so far, and there are 12 models, right? So are the other seven (not counting D'Anna) other models or could there be other copies of previously seen cylons hidden in the fleet by cylon sympathizers?

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

And when Sharon has her baby, the cylon agenda will have a cute cherub face. Adama will not be able to be mean to the baby and get away with it, simply because the human condition will make everyone sympathetic to the cylon baby. Should be interesting.

That's an interesting point. I wonder if the baby will be snatched away almost immediately to prevent the Cylons getting too much sympathy? The 4400 had a killer baby on their show and they made it quite creepy, so maybe they can do the same.

As for the models being hidden, I can see that being possible. It would be hard if you'd been with someone for a long time to admit that they might be part of those who'd almost wiped out your species. But it would have to be on a very small ship with a heightened sense of community because I can't see anyone else not turning them in.

We were told there were 12 models, but I wonder if they'll stick to that information or not. They've been revealing them rather fast recently to the extent that they might run out at some point if the series lasts.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I got, err, weirded out by the martial music at the end. Had been wondering about this since they did the Boston Massacre, since I couldn't see them coming out anti-military At A Time Like This. And, see, I know it's bitchy of me, but I did go "And sometime the military kill civilians. But that's okay, because they wear uniforms and in no way have a responsibility to protect us."

God, am I in another military fandom now?

[peeeeeeet.livejournal.com]

I'm told the martial music was the theme from the original series...

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I did not know that. As long as they don't bring back the bizarre helments and the fondess for silver attire or the strange kid with hideous haircut I'll forgive them this one time.

[peeeeeeet.livejournal.com]

My friend Jonjo thinks they should bring back the robot who went "bidibidibidi", but that is because he DOESN'T UNDERSTAND. I have tried explaining but no.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

Between that robot and the one on Buck Rogers I spent my childhood totally fearing the coming age when we would be served by shiny metal beings. Luckily that has not come to pass, but still I dread what may be around the corner. (And I am ashamed of my childhood viewing habits, but given Irish TV it was that or yet another John Wayne movie).

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

The music was really disturbing and madly like something off a very bad propaganda reel. And I'm not sure what to think now peeeet said it's from the original series. I think that one was all about the glorious military but I can't be sure as whenever I see it now I tend to get distracted by their unfortunate costume choices.

I will be upset if this turns into a military fandom where the civilians are always uppity and annoying and need to be put firmly in their place before they take over and actually want to run things. The mini-series was remarkably anti some military ideals - like the fight for glory to the end thing even if gets your civilisation wiped out. I'm not sure where they're going now, though.