BSG: I really hate boxing

[lesbiassparrow]

No, I do. It's absolutely one of the few things I can't abide on the Telly. That and Fox 'News.' So I'm about 20 minutes into this thing and I have (not cutting this because there's no spoilers):

a) rarely loathed anyone as much I loathe Starbuck in this. Seriously, it's about wiping out all liking I have for her as her remarkable self-centeredness (which apparently must be excused because she is screwed-up) is repellent. ETA: Lee is running her a close second, though.

b) been forced to watch far too much boxing. Which is to say any at all.

Is there some pay-off for sitting through all this boxing? Will I suddenly find out that Starbuck was possessed by evil alien overlords?

Er, though, judging by the flist reaction this is a very loved episode, so I am out in the cold.



Wow. What a self-centered and unattractive couple Lee and Starbuck are. I don't really care what your issues are, I don't care how messed up you are. I don't care how much you want something: you are still repellent if you sleep with someone and then bounce back to marry someone else...because why? You're the girl who doesn't know what she wants? Who's all confused? And ditto for Lee: running off to Dee after his night o'love with Kara is also completely reppellent.

I know I am supposed to buy into that Starbuck is so messed up that I must forgive. Or understand. And presumably ditto for Lee. But I just can't. And the more I see of her, the less I find myself interested in her, because it's always the same bloody issues over and over again.

Comments

[chelseagirl47.livejournal.com]

I'm now rooting for Dee and Anders to find each other on the rebound and have lovely babies. *bleah* I am so over Starbuck, in particular, though yes, Lee too.

Dee, you never should have left Billy. Maybe he wouldn't have died tragically and you could be being adored instead of being a substitute.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Dee, you never should have left Billy. Maybe he wouldn't have died tragically and you could be being adored instead of being a substitute.

I gotta say, though, I hate this idea that Dee's getting karmic payback for cheating on Billy; she DIDN'T marry him while pining for Lee; she broke it off BEFORE she really got into things with Lee, so to me, it doesn't even compare to what both Lee and Kara did to *their* S.O.'s. I actually stopped hating Anders long enough to feel sorry for him!

You know, in my head, I kept thinking about "Deadwood", where Seth and Alma BOTH do the honorable thing and stick with the spouses that they have and Seth doesn't shame Martha by continuing his affair with Alma and how great I thought that was. ARGH!!! *hates* (Although I will probably never actually be able to hate Lee ;))

[chelseagirl47.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not seeing it as payback for Dee. I'm just thinking "alas for what could have been." :-) I really liked Billy. Is karmic payback a theme in the discussions? Yours was the only entry on the ep I saw when I checked LJ this morning; I just got to the library and am checking emails but honestly haven't seen what anyone else has said. [Will be good. Will not look at LJ until this evening. Will read Foucault instead. *pout*]

Seth and Alma are operating in a world with notions of honor . . . It's interesting looking at honor in BSG -- such a military culture but also a fair bit of emotional self-indulgence running around.

[(Anonymous)]

Oops. sorry QoT, haven't even read your entry yet, if you had one. Am spacy and thought this was lesbiassparrow's reply. Duh.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Oh, I didn't mean YOU at all - I just sadly happened to come across a bunch of Dee-bashing posts on TWOP about how the people didn't feel sorry for her because she "betrayed" Billy.

Seth and Alma are operating in a world with notions of honor . . . It's interesting looking at honor in BSG -- such a military culture but also a fair bit of emotional self-indulgence running around.

I would have thought honour would be a big theme for the people on BSG too, but apparently it's perfectly OK to be HORRIBLE to people who love you on a semi-regular basis. See, I think this is why I really hate Lee's Kara-thing so much - I feel like it makes him act in ways that are dishonorable and petty and sneaky and nasty. (I mean, he's petty with his dad sometimes, but it's over BIGGER stuff.)

[chelseagirl47.livejournal.com]

Sorry, just got paranoid there. I was just so afraid I was being taken for a Dee-basher when I actually felt really bad for her!

Now this may just be me as Professional Victorianist, but I think in the nineteenth century notions of personal honor meant more than they do now; the BSG characters seem to be suffering from a bit too much twenty-first century "oh, feel my personal pain" and that it's okay to do that as long as it doesn't keep getting in the way of work, specifically military, honor. But it really keeps doing just that.

In other words, I just want to smack the characters. But this week especially Kara and Lee.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I just feel like they used to be able to separate personal pain from, I dunno, doing their jobs :P And Roslin seems to be the ONLY PERSON on this show who can still do that.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

Quite clearly their pain is the most important thing in the world, so much so that I must see it often and in large doses. Whatever happened to fighting cylons and finding Earth? I liked the cylons: they were shiny and moved the narrative on. I am much less keen on the human model Cylons as they apparently just fap around being maudlin about why people don't love them.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

In other words, I just want to smack the characters.

I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking 'don't you have something better to do than go around screwing each over emotionally?' The answer apparently is no, though you would have thought they have a lot more on their minds.

At least on New Caprica people did secret underground things which resulted in explosions. I feel this show severely undervalues the entertainment value of explosions.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I hated, hated this episode. And I really now hate the love of Starbuck and Lee which apparently must make us forgive all their wankery actions. They've had years now to sort this out, but they still continue acting like 5 year olds who want the toy they've smashed to pieces 10 seconds ago.

I've come to like Anders (and I always liked Dee) and I can't help thinking that once he's gone, Starbuck will inevitably want him back and he will be the best thing ever. Because she valued him most when he wasn't there. Ugh. I've rarely despised a set of characters as much as I've despised her and Lee in this episode. And how nice of them to both publicly humiliate their spouses. That was the added touch that was missing from their complete wankerness. GRRR!!!

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I'm now rooting for Dee and Anders to find each other on the rebound and have lovely babies. *bleah* I am so over Starbuck, in particular, though yes, Lee too.

I thought that too. I kept thinking how delicious it would be if Dee and Anders, both of whom are actually nice people, got together and their spouses suddenly realised that not everyone is going to put up with their rubbish forever. Because I feel with both Starbuck and Lee that they only value what they can't have.

Poor Billy. But like like QoT below I don't actually feel that Dee was at fault there; she dated him and then broke up with him because she didn't feel that way about him. Sad, because I thought they were great together, but not cruel and self-centered: that would have been marrying him and then trotting after Lee.

[chelseagirl47.livejournal.com]

Interesting that both of you read me as blaming Dee -- not at all what I intended -- it's just an "alas!" because I thought Dee and Billy were adorable together. I can see why she'd find Lee more appealing, but it's just a shame.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the misread! But I've seen a bit of 'Dee is getting payback for mistreating Billy' on line so hence the reaction.

But I do wish she was with someone who valued her properly - and at the very least wasn't washing his emotional linen in public.

Good luck with the Foucault. I should be reading Cicero even now...

[lovinlorne.livejournal.com]

I've never liked Starbuck. Ever. And then, just when I would start to feel a tiny bit sorry for her, she'd prove once more what an total ass she was. I only saw the last 10-15 minutes of the show last night, and it was obvious that she was still a class A ass.

But Lee is right on her tail.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I've gone back and forwards on Starbuck, but now I don't see how the character can ever be redeemed for me. I don't care about her horrific childhood or anything else - I am sure lots of other people in the fleet suffered also equally before and during the Cylons. Nothing jusifies her absolute self-absorption and belief that she is the centre of the universe to whom all must pay attention. And Lee cuts her a close second.

This is a pity because I am surely going to be treated to hours of their one true love which is more important than anything else.

[http://users.livejournal.com/ar_feiniel_/]

I know I am supposed to buy into that Starbuck is so messed up that I must forgive. Or understand. And presumably ditto for Lee. But I just can't.

I used to not like Kara/Lee....but now I think they deserve each other with all their emo-attitude.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I know! I never minded them as a couple, because it felt clear that the writers were going to put them together and I might as well accept that, but now I think that they should be together because no one else (not even Baltar, betrayer of the 12 colonies and the fleet) deserves the hell of being with either of them. It's like watching 5 year olds interact, which would be okay if they were actually 5, but is less appealling in an adult.

[deenohh]

Not only is it an episode with very little redeeming qualities but it is one of the most unrealistic depictions of a fight between two totally mismatched opponents I have ever seen. To start Kara who wants to get back Lees affections or friendship or what ever, instead of a sincere and heartfelt apology decides to insult and goad him into a boxing match. In any realistic depiction of a fight between a 130lb, not particularly athletic woman and a 200lb very muscular, athletic male who is both much stronger and has better endurance the woman would be in danger of suffering terrible injury. Lee hits Kara with several unanswered. undefended p7unches to the face, head & body. I big fan of fighting sports and in this situation Kara would have left the ring on a stretcher and required weeks of serious medical treatment. I wont say anymore about there behavior except that w I believe Lee is somewhat motivated by guilt over loving his deceased brother fiancee, Karas actions are both cruel and hatefull in the extreme are motivated more by selfishness and cowardice.