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In between trying to read the pile of novels I have in the 'must be read before leaving Los Angeles so I know whether they are worth keeping' pile I've been watching the uber-angsty kdrama What Happened in Bali. It's not just regular angst: it goes so far beyond that that it enters new and completely depressing territory. Which is a pretty impressive achievement given some of the stuff kdramas go for.

Having been forewarned by [livejournal.com profile] dangermousie and after reading her write-ups I decided to skip the first 5 episodes and move right in ye miserable love quadrangle of dooooomed love. Then I couldn't get episodes 12-15 online so I missed the middle bit as well. Probably just as well because the level of misery in this show should get it a public health warning and I suspect that one's head would explode if you watched the entire thing.

The plot: rich guy falls for Poor Young Thing, Poor Young Thing sees in him her meal ticket out of the slums but despite having the instincts to sell herself always falters at the last minute - because she's interested in her next door neighbour, a Bright Young Man who is working his way out of the slums and who is desired by the fiancée of Rich Guy. I hate fiancée by the way: stupid bint goes along with Rich Guy's family forcing him* to marry her and then is all mopey when he hates her. What did she expect given that he was almost insanely in love with and obsessed by Poor Young Thing? Stupid bint I say, and mean it. (Though I do rather like that she's now trapped in this hell of her own making.)

Rich Guy has horrid parents and (now) mother-in-law who specialise in not noticing that he is going to go spectacularly off the rails if they keep him from Poor Young Thing and also in beating and humiliating her for good measure. They are all Obsessive Control Parents of the sort that these dramas seem to possess in abundance. I really find it interesting that most of the time parental figures are just absolutely horrid and do not really care at all for their children's happinesss - and even when they must know it will destroy the child, the desire to control them overrides any other impulses. If they even have any other impulses, that is. In dramaland family hierachies are about the most damaging thing there is.

I like the two poor slum people and the Rich Guy, even though clearly he is not the sanest guy around and would in real life freak any sensible girl. But in fictional land he is interestingly disturbed and also clearly willing to stand around in alarming cold moping over his love, thus fulfilling many kdrama hero requirements.

Will all of this be resolved? Hell, no. There's no way anyone is getting out of this happy. As long as the wretched parents and older brother spend the rest of their lives regretting what they've done, I don't really mind.

ETA: Though this kdrama is (quite clearly) terribly melodramatic and over the top in many ways, it is terrifically honest in the humiliations that poor people have to bear without saying anything just so they can get by. There's a great scene where the two horrid rich mothers are battling it out for whose maid should clean the new couple's apartment and the misery and uncomfortableness on the maids' faces as they're dragged into this and have to tolerate the things being flung around about them without saying a word is just horribly, horribly good.

ETA 2: Rich Guy and horrid fiancée (now Horrid Wife) have clearly decided that their one strategy to dealing with being thwarted in love is to turn up at the object of desire's doorstep drunk and impose and insult people. Extra points if you also drag along your spouse at some time! If I were the poor slum people I would be more careful about giving out my home address as obviously the rich like to keep you awake to all hours with their alcoholic melancholy and weeping even if you have to work the next day.

*To achieve this Rich Guy's father beats him senseless with a golf club and then threatens to go after Poor Young Thing thus winning worse dorama parent award amdist some pretty close competition.

Date: 2007-06-15 01:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
OMG. You are watching Bali! I squealed when I saw this. I actually like eps 12-15 as Rich Guy and Poor Young Thing move in together and there is a sex scene (or it might be in a later ep, I kinda marathonned it).

(btw, I love the names you give them :P)

I finished ep 17 and then stopped because it was all so depressing and was not going to end well either. Also wanting to murder half the cast was not helping. But I think I shall finish today, after this write-up :)

There is also something clearly wrong with me as I much prefer Rich Guy (even though he is clearly unhinged) to Bright Young Man (who is hardworking and relatively sane).

Hmmm, it just occured to me that in some ways, Bali is like a dark mirror to Hanadan. Rich Guy is a lot, in some ways, as what (better socialized) Domyouji would have been if he didn't meet Makino. Poor Young Thing should stop weeping though...

Date: 2007-06-15 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
I really wish I could have seen eps 12-15 (the sex scene is in 16 so I did get to see that. Well I got to see them kiss and then the aftermath scene). Though I am not sorry I skipped the start as there is only so much angst one can take.

I prefer Rich Guy to Bright Young Man mainly because he is less passive - though I guess BYM has every reason to be passive because if he acts he knows he'll get smacked down hard by the rich. Also RG is more attractive and has better hair and if only Poor Young Thing could get rid of parents he would buy her anything. I cut PYT a lot of slack for weeping as her life was very, very horrid. I probably would be crying night and day if I were her.

As I watched it I thought it was like a very gritty, dark Hanadan - and you know if Domyouji had married this is what Makino was in store for, a lifetime of him turning up her door in a mess. Unless she ran off with Rui and he entirely self-destructed.

There's some good stuff in the final episodes (I'm in the middle of the last one) including an absolutely devasting scene where RG begs his father to let him have PYT - he's clutching his leg and just bawling.

Date: 2007-06-15 06:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I really wish I could have seen eps 12-15

I have no idea if my official dvds are copy protected, but would you like me to try uploading the eps into megaupload for you? I could try it on Sunday (as have family in town this weekend and won't be able to do so earlier).

I am not sorry I skipped the start as there is only so much angst one can take.

Well, in the beginning RG is being a total smug jerk which is sort of amusing in a 'I know you are going to grovel at her feet soon' way.

BYM has every reason to be passive because if he acts he knows he'll get smacked down hard by the rich.

I have a really random reason for not liking BYM: he looks supercilious. Also, anyone who even temporarily found the evil fiancee attractive is a Martian, IMO.

if only Poor Young Thing could get rid of parents he would buy her anything

Hasn't she heard of arsenic? :)

I thought it was like a very gritty, dark Hanadan - and you know if Domyouji had married this is what Makino was in store for, a lifetime of him turning up her door in a mess.

I am glad I am not the only one who thought so. The thing with RG's appalling family is that while he is no sweetheart, he comes across as very unjaded and oddly innocent, compared to them (which of course makes him vulnerable. He has authentic emotions, however screwed up he is). His brother just exploits that, and his father is a monster, and his mother, who seems to love him, is completely narcissistic about it: she doesn't want what's good for him, she wants what she thinks he deserves as her son.

You wrote about drama family heirarchies up top and you are right: none of them seem concerned that this guy is already a bit imbalanced and is going to go majorly off the rails after stuff like this which would get even the most well-adjusted person screwed up. It's as if as long as he fulfills the role, that is all they care about and they don't seem to think that if he snaps, he can turn on them just as easily as himself.

Unless she ran off with Rui and he entirely self-destructed.

Well, if she ran off with Rui in such a scenario, we'd get the ending of Bali, definitely. (Though maybe tempered by the fact that Rui and D were friends, but then Jae-Min is a pattern of sanity compared to D).

absolutely devasting scene where RG begs his father to let him have PYT - he's clutching his leg and just bawling.

I really like the actor who plays RG (he is my favorite of the bunch of characters, though I got this drama largely for Ha Ji Won who plays the heroine. You are right btw about her right to weep, I think I just find it emotionally exhausting. But then when she tries to be proactive she just gets smacked down by the world), but after seeing Bali and his movie 'A Dirty Carnival' I am ready for something where he gets to be happy for a change. Maybe make some water baloons.

You've watch Veronica Mars, right? He reminds me of a more entrenched S1 Logan...

Date: 2007-06-15 07:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
I have no idea if my official dvds are copy protected, but would you like me to try uploading the eps into megaupload for you?

If you could that would be great but no worries if you can't.

BYM annoyed me more at first than at the end - he was rather smug, but by about episode 19 I really felt for him because he's realising that he's being set up by evil brother to fail and that there really isn't a way out from poverty through hard work and being bright. He's really as screwed as PYT is.

I really liked RG -and I think he worked better because BYM was a great passive foil for him to play off. RG hasn't really learned what the poor characters have: that you can't get things even if you want them. He still thinks theres some point in railing at the universe when it's unfair. And the actor sells a character who isn't the nicest and who is fairly self-absorbed. He can't give PYT up though clearly he is damaging her further by his continued involvement, he couldn't cut himself off even to save her (though admittedly I am not sure if he quite aware how much he is ruining her life given how messed up his is).

All the families in this are totally destructive. (Except maybe BYM's mother). They just take from you and expect you to endure it: PYT's brother is as bad as the rest of them because he'd sell her for $50. As to why RG's family doesn't just tell him to set PYT up as his permanent mistress and go ahead with the sham marriage I am not sure. And given that his dad is a control freak - and mum too in her own way - you'd think they'd realise that after the marriage they are losing control over him fast because he is self-destructing at an alarming rate and the way to get that control back is through PYT. If they let him have her they could anything they liked with him and he'd be an effective tool.

As for Hanadan, I wish people wrote decent fic for these things because I think that would be an interesting scenario in fiction. Just how would things play out if evil mum got her way? Clearly both D and RG need the girl to function properly - even though really only Hanadan even flirts with wondering what the hell that's like for the girl in the picture. You've got to wonder how uncomfortable it would be to be in a relationship where you're needed that much.

Eek! This is getting to be a very long response to your comment - sorry! I've seen S1 of VM and a few episodes of S3 (which I hated for their portrayal of feminists and the general rubbishness). RG does remind me of Logan a bit, though Logan had more self-control in personal relationships (or at least no obsessive love of this degree). But I guess that's what you meant by 'more entrenched'... :)

Date: 2007-06-15 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I'll try uploading them then.

Except maybe BYM's mother

I think she is not very awesome either. I keep thinking about the scene where he gets back from Indonesia after years but she is busy kicking him out because she wants to get it on with the neighbor. The poor guy.

I do think that there is not a single functional relationship in this whole drama, really (romantic or otherwise), which is pretty bleak.

He still thinks theres some point in railing at the universe when it's unfair. And the actor sells a character who isn't the nicest and who is fairly self-absorbed

I think the reason he thinks so is because before that he's never encountered anything he wanted he couldn't get because his needs were fairly basic and materialistic: a meal, or a trip, or someone hot for a one night stand.

The point about him being self absorbed, as it relates to the point of how it is for the girl to be so needed is actually something I was thinking about earlier.

The thing is, though, if RG could have her, without freaking out about losing her (and as Domyouji gets Makino for keeps), he would become less absorbed and slowly more integrable into the norm. Neither he nor Domyouji would ever cease being a freak of some sort or ever be an easy person to live with, but they would slowly be able to climb to normalcy. Part of the reason they are so unable to comprehend others' feelings and latch on so hard to the heroine is that they never had a healthy and loving emotional relationship before, so a give and take is not only new to them, but having an emotional connection is so intoxicating, they get carried away as they have no other outlet. And of course with RG, the unhigedness is partly cause from his growing up in an abusive environment (which is why Logan first popped into my head actually). He needs stability even more than he needs love but he has neither.

In a way, the moral of Hanadan and Bali is the same (only Hanadan is uplifting and Bali depressing): wealth without emotional connection stunts and deforms the recepient. But of course, Bali doesn't go for the 'noble poor' ideal, either, which gets points from me. Poor people have to contend for finding means of survival and suffering humiliations. It's very Russian novel in 'everybody is miserable' approach.

to why RG's family doesn't just tell him to set PYT up as his permanent mistress and go ahead with the sham marriage I am not sure.

I think it's because she is low class and she caused problems in the incipent marriage, etc. If she was some long-legged model, and it was done after marriage, discreetly, they would be fine with it. But I think the biggest problem is that he is emotionally wrapped up in her. Chaiman has mistresses by the droves, but he clearly doesn't care about them (or anyone).

I love long comments btw as it's fun to discuss this!

Date: 2007-06-15 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
The thing is, though, if RG could have her, without freaking out about losing her (and as Domyouji gets Makino for keeps), he would become less absorbed and slowly more integrable into the norm.

I was thinking about this and also thinking about the Trollope novel 'He Knew he was Right' and wondering if that's the case (you could really do a lot with how the obsessions and interests of both Victorian fiction and these dramas parallel each other). Because in that one (and in Trollope in general) obsessive love is a sickness and a sign of something deeply flawed in the character: it's good to stand firm in your love and refuse to bend about taking other people but relentless pursuit is the sign of something terribly awry.

In Bali and Hanadan you wonder how one person could possibly supply what these two guys really need - in Hanadan, at least, though the guy has a sister and good friends, but in Bali even though he looks in much better shape he really is even more isolated.

I also liked the fact that Bali didn't go for the noble poor - they'll do what they have to to survive. I actually liked the friend who talked mean but never actually threw PYT out on the streets. I also liked that this was also a critique of the 'hard work can get you places': no it won't, not if the people at the top are waiting to screw you over.

It's very bleak in because everyone is rather damned no matter what route they take.

And if you can upload those episode I would be very grateful - but please don't bother if it's too much of a chore!

Date: 2007-06-15 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I am not the hugest Trollope fan (though I loved Barchester Towers) because a lot of his philosophy really isn't mine, but I do think he has a point. Obsessive love (as glorified in Bollywood) can mean the person is very passionate. It can also mean he is unbalanced. I think dramas like Bali or Hanadan (or Bollywood movies or even novels like Jane Eyre) present in a safe (because you are not in it) environment the desire that a lot of people have to be loved so utterly and completely that the person would self-destruct for you, that nothing exists for them. Like a lot of things that are great in fiction, it would be damn exhausting in real life.

I think that is the appeal of a Domyouji or Jae-Min or whoever: they might be poorly socialized and self-absorbed, but they are going to utterly give themselves to love. But of course, I think a really healthy person wouldn't be this way because you wouldn't be the only thing in their life worth living for.

When I was talking about integration into the norm, I was actually referincing a somewhat personal experience. I was rather self-absorbed before Mr. Mousie. I was well adjusted and all, but I wasn't particularly interested in what other people wanted or anything. Being with him and caring for him, actually made me care for other people as well. And there is the fact that when we first met, Mr. Mousie was...well...he wasn't a Domyouji or Jae-Min (thank the Lord) but I think more like Rui prior to Shizuka and after seven years together, both of us are pretty normal and I've gotten him so laid-back his family comments on the difference. I don't really want to go into more details as it's not my stuff to tell, but I do think that being with another person in a healthy environment can do wonders.

Date: 2007-06-16 02:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com
Like a lot of things that are great in fiction, it would be damn exhausting in real life.

That's certainly one of the appeals of all of this - you get to see all the things that might fictionally appeal but would horrify you in real life. In rl I like my men very sane, very grounded and with as few issues as possible. And P. is usually those things. (I say usually because he does become temporarily unstable during hockey playoffs.) But fictional men are entirely different. The more messed up the better for them! (As long as they look rather hot being that way, for I am exceedingly shallow).

Thanks for sharing about Mr. M and yourself. And I do agree that being with the right people at the right time can make a lot of difference.

P.S.

Date: 2007-06-15 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I also agree that dramas and Victorian literature have similar themes in a lot of ways. I wonder if it's because are set in somewhat similar societies where there is social repression in what are the acceptable ways you can behave yourself but also the society is changing very rapidly.

And I'll definitely try to ul. I love to share the angst :)

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